|Gaurav||Why? What happened?|
|Saurav||These people. All these homos.|
|Gaurav||Homos? You mean LGBT right?|
|Saurav||What LG.. TD..?|
|Gaurav||I said LGBT, i.e. lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders.|
|Saurav||Yeah, whatever. Just see them hugging each other, making merry after the Delhi High Court verdict. How could H.C. legalise their preposterous acts.|
|Gaurav||Preposterous acts? Why preposterous?|
|Saurav||Because they are against the order of the nature, against the Will of God.|
|Gaurav||Well, I believe in that case we are acting preposterously 24X7.|
|Saurav||What do you mean?|
|Gaurav||God sent us on this earth naked, you see. Don't you think He must be willing to see us in that condition only. By wearing clothes, my dear friend, aren't you going against his Will?|
|Saurav||What rubbish. Don't draw stupid comparisons for God's sake.|
|Gaurav||Ohkey! For God's sake let it be. But how do you know what was the God's Will?|
|Saurav||Well, he made a man and he made a woman. He gave them the power to recreate. Hence, in a sense, he delegated them, 'not' him, 'not' her, he delegated 'them', his power to create a new life. That was the God's Will. And that shall remain his Will.|
|Gaurav||Well said Dude. I agree. Even if I am not clear with this whole concept of God and his Will, I agree that life can be generated by only a Man and a Woman in unison. And that is a beautiful power the two possess, meaningless without the other.|
|Saurav||So you see, these gays and lesbians are making a mockery of this power they possess. They are abdicating from their duty.|
|Gaurav||Well, they can adopt if they want. That will solve a big social problem. Give a family and a home to so many orphans.|
|Saurav||Yeah, sure. And these poor orphans will be made fun of when they grow up, right. For they won't have a mother and a father but just one of them but in a pair.|
|Gaurav||Who'll make fun? At least I won't. The ignorant might. That's why there is need to remove this ignorance and bring the LGBT's from the periphery to the core of society.|
|Saurav||Which core? You know, actually there are very few such queer people. Its all this media hype and movies that make normal people try the preposterous stuff.|
|Gaurav||C'mon man. Now don't pull media into this. The reality is that such people exist in our society but we are not ready to accept it. There are so many who are leading the life of heterosexual out of the fear of this very society.|
|Saurav||So it is good, right. Everyone should be afraid of society.|
|Gaurav||Where does this fear go, my dear friend when you watch that porno stuff on your lappie or talk dirty to girls on your cell?|
|Saurav||That is just harmless stuff man. And that is my personal life. Again you are drawing irrelevant comparisons.|
|Gaurav||Personal Life? These stupid conventions of society are destroying the personal lives of so many LGBT's, you know. They have disastrous married life, putting up with a falsehood everyday of their life. Their partner can not reveal it out of associated taboo and both keep on carrying their daily chores without any zeal, without any love.|
|Gaurav||No wait. And harmless you said. What harm have they done to you or society.|
|Saurav||AIDS, my dear friend AIDS. Do you know, how high is the prevalence of AIDS amongst gays? They carry out their preposterous acts using no protection whatsoever. To top it, they maintain multiple relationships unlike heterosexuals. All this breed AIDS and that is the biggest possible harm they are doing, you see.|
|Gaurav||Ohkey! I agree. That is a valid point you have made though only in parts. But remember, there is need to educate them about this harm. After all, the biggest harm is theirs, don't you think.|
|Saurav||Yeah, that's what i said. Educate them, tell them to lead a normal, healthy life of a heterosexual.|
|Gaurav||No, you are taking me wrong. I mean, educate them about AIDS and ways to protect themselves against it. It will be possible if medical professionals and relevant organisations clearly know what and where their target group is. And they will know it only if, homosexuality is legalised.|
|Saurav||What crap. All of them are so well organised carrying out stupid rallies every other day. How can you say it is difficult to target them.|
|Gaurav||I agree. And I believe, people must be making efforts through such mediums but still there are many who do not reveal their sexual orientation. Such cases must be far higher than those who openly lead the life of LGBT.|
|Saurav||But legalising won't remove the social taboo. The covert one's will continue to lead their lives as they do right now.|
|Gaurav||Another valid point. See, legalising will have two-pronged effect. Firstly, it will stop the harassment of LGBT's at the hands of unscrupulous police officials. The Section 377 of IPC is against an unnatural sexual act. Unnatural in the sense we discussed earlier. However, all this is done behind doors. So how can a homosexual be arrested when there is no evidence or witness to this act, unless there is a valid complaint.|
|Saurav||So, you mean the police officials who take undue advantage of the knowledge of someone's queerness, won't be able to harass them for bribe.|
|Gaurav||Or maybe sexual gratification. Don't you have gays in the police department!|
|Saurav||Well, I think all of them are!|
|Gaurav||Hey, do not use the word 'gay' as an abuse.|
|Saurav||Whatever! Anyways, what is the second point.|
|Gaurav||That's coming to the point which you raised about law being ineffective in presence of social pressure. At least a start has to be made somewhere. Yesterday's editorial of 'Hindu' carried a beautiful thought. It said that in non-negotiable social issues, government must lead the public opinion and not tail its least enlightened strands or go for the lowest common denominator.|
|Saurav||Nice thought indeed.|
|Gaurav||Yup. So the verdict of H.C. is a welcome move on the part of judicial wing of the government. Now it is the time for the legislative and executive wings to act. I believe former Union Health Minister Ramadoss took a great initiative by bringing this issue into limelight.|
|Saurav||He was just a masquerading populist politician. Wasn't he? Went overboard with that ban on smoking issue of his, reducing the Health Ministry to a one-point agenda.|
|Gaurav||Yeah, I agree to some extent. But still, by initiating the discussion on Gay rights, he did what Bill Clinton did in USA back in 1992. Gay rights was a very important platform on which he fought and won that election against Bush Senior.|
|Saurav||But did he do anything after that?|
|Gaurav||No, just put it under the carpets after winning. Our government should not do so at this opportune moment. There is a need to welcome the High Court's verdict and as soon as possible amend or if need be repeal the Section as recommended by the judge. For time being, it shall be read down, i.e. will be applicable for cases like paedophilia or rape of a homosexual but will be ignored for cases of consensual intercourse between an adult couple of same sex.|
|Saurav||What other option do the Government have?|
|Gaurav||Nothing. So better do it. The H.C. has regarded the gay rights as falling under the Article 21 of Indian Constitution that guarantees that every citizen has equal protection of life and personal liberty. Moreover, H.C. finds Section 377 violative of Articles 14 and 15 which gaurantee equality before law and prohibits the State from discriminating against anyone on the grounds of sex.|
|Saurav||Article 21? Wow, that has been the most potent tool in the hands of judiciary, right? They have added so many provisions under it like those relating to ecology, education, police brutality, legal aid and so on.|
|Gaurav||Right. And even if the case goes further to Supreme Court, I have no doubt, the acme of justice in India will uphold the H.C.'s verdict. Moreover, this initiative has to be taken to its logical conclusion.|
|Saurav||And what is it?|
|Gaurav||Its legalising the same sex marriages.|
|Saurav||Wow! What's left anyway.|
|Gaurav||My friend, when the Constitution can guarantee everyone the right to choose one's religion, then why not, one's sexual orientation too? Everyone fail to understand this particular point, calling LGBT's by weird names, calling them psychologically imbalanced and what not.|
Such, so called believers of God don't realise that God has created this world with abundant marvels, human beings being one of them. We see perfection as the way we want to perceive it. Just because a large majority happen to be heterosexual does not make the others queer. They are normal human beings, not imperfect but just with a different taste.
|Saurav||Yup, even I happened to be one such 'so called' God believer just few moments ago.|
|Gaurav||Its great, you finally understood. Having said all this, I must confess that even I sometimes wonder what a gay sees in another guy when such a beautiful creation of God is there to marvel.|
|Saurav||Right, the hot chicks!|
|Gaurav||Hmmm.. the girls, i mean. But that is their choice and i respect it.|
|Saurav||For us only a girl will do.|
|Gaurav||Not 'a' girl, but two girls my dear friend.|
|Saurav||Right. Lets get ready for the geri. Time to find those two!|
Update (July 3, 2009)Also read my discussion with Dhiman in the Comments section where he has raised some intelligent concerns. This discussion takes the Saurav-Gaurav discussion towards its logical conclusion.
I was actually planning to write a post on this topic. But this post is lot better than what I thought of.
Though it is little lengthy the conversation style made that up well. You didnt miss a point I guess.
yeah its lengthy bt had 2 b as i'v cvrd each nd evry aspect as u mntiond. nd um so happy on reading the product. the cnvrsation just kept building as i tuk the role of both saurav nd gaurav.
one of the most intelligently presented posts i've seen ...
Very unique and intelligent way of bringing out "their" view but Vipul you know what the so called "taboo" against them is not without any reasons...
I still remember when I was in school I was constantly pestered by a middle-aged man who acted and behaved like a weirdo(excuse for using this term) and actually tried to fondle me in a crowded bus and when things started getting out of hand I had to call in my friends and teach him a "good lesson" ....
and it was not an isolated occurrence I have come across a several other "Gays" who seem to impose themselves I mean its fine they get turned on by men or whatever but like we respect others choices they too should do that...I mean for God sake majority are straight they should understand that ....
I am very happy and applaud the fact that people are getting aware and our judicial system truly implementing the equality of all irrespective of their preferences but with it we must be aware that some of these Gays can turn potential pedophiles...
we need to keep our children safe...unless they too are Gays or whatever....
I don't think there should be any other concern like religious or social stigma etc...
Also I feel "they" need to be educated and awareness created in them as well because have you not come across "eunuchs" at the crossings begging and when you don't pay they make obscene gestures and try to touch you or rather fondle you ...is that lawful ?
Legalizing 'them' will pave a way for organizations to address this problem ...I hope...
Sorry for a long comment :D
@subhayan. thnx a lot man 4 the appreciation. I myslf hav fallen in luv with this post:)
@dhiman.. such a long posts deserves a long comment dude.. thnx 4 appreciating nd putting fwd ur view:)
anyways, pedophiles r not necessarily homosexual. they cn be bisexual bt simply said they r paedophiles nd let us not club thm with other LGBT's. Paedophilia is still a crime under Section 377 nd is an abhorable act tht cn nvr b justified by law nd society alike.
Secondly, i'll hav 2 admit tht staying in Chndigarh, i'v nvr cum across gays as its not tht opn here (though according 2 a recent estimate there r about 40,000 of thm residing here where total population is about a million.) So, i don't know if they impose thmslvs ovr heterosexuals or not though movies do portray sch a picture (nd i prefer not 2 depend upon cinematic portrayals.)
Thirdly, lets not make a mistake of clubbing LGBT's with eunuchs. former stems out of a mental desire, latter out of physical reality. moreovr, eunuchs r a highly discriminated section of the society. they cnt evn pretend nd lead a normal life like LGBT's. those who enter 'begging business' r groomed like tht since childhood nd end up behaving the way u described. Lets show empathy to thm:)
Vipul I have empathy for everyone ... but do we have any system in place to prevent eunuchs from what they become and this what I am asking is that by legalizing "Gay Sex" are we fully looking at the implications to it where most of country lives out of the big cities... its good that the "Closeted ones" will come out and I know most of them might be great people but what I am concerned is there should not be any wrong advantages taken by people who can disguise themselves as LGBT I mean can you discriminate it....
What I mean to say problem is not with the enlightened ones like the ones who are parading in different cities I know them and I am in full support of them but I mean about some "Pseudos" who might take advantage of this situation do we have enough provisions to prevent that ... I am really not very aware on these so please educate me...
and I have known People who are very clear about their preferences and donot "impose" themselves but there are many who do I tell you they are there...maybe they will come out more openly now everywhere....like I said I experienced it and I am not an exception believe me...anyway I hope all this doesnot give wrong signals to wrong people.... thats only my concern ... and I repeat we need to enlighten "everyone" I mean with this law out I hope different agencies can fight these evils which will use the LGBTs cover to undue advantage...
Hey dhiman i fully undrstnd ur cncrn.. evn i don't like the way gays r shown bhaving in movies nd if tht is reality thn i support u tht they shud not bhave like tht.
Howevr, don't v have roadside romeos 'imposing' thmslvs on women evryday in our country, b it cities, towns or villages. if v cn bear with thm thn why not with sch 'imposing' gays.
By saying this i dont mean tht v shud bear with thm, bt just want to club 2gthr sch ppl(hetero or homo) who indulge in eve-teasing or 'adam-teasing' respectively..
thr is law against thm.. if any1 feel they r being indescent thn cn report tht to authorities..
bt thn sum may say police do nothing.. nd the topic cn go on. so i'll leave it here 4 time being:)
Now cuming 2 'pseudo' ones, um not clear as to whom u r pointing to.. cn u plz giv sum example so tht i may rply.
Well dhiman on a second thought, i realise u r right tht thr r no laws to prevnt the knid of 'adam teasing' u xplaind as Section 377 will only cvr non-consensual sex acts nd not teasing.. nd thr r only laws against eve-teasing, not a gay imposing himslf on anothr guy..
for tht the ball is in UPA's court now. They shud come out with sch provisions tht address all such 'intelligent' concerns.
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I think this whole thing is still a Work in Progress and UPA and courts are still trying to figure out what's best. I think we need to give it some time and hope everything falls in place :) Nevertheless its good that people are looking at these things in new light ...I think this is what I find very unique about India.... people look forward to change and new concepts...
and it was a nice discussion and honestly I never had so profound ideas about issues like these and your post somehow surprised me how it brought out my "concerns" as I had read a number of articles on this issue and was generally "silent" as ever ...maybe your one is a very "thought" provoking one...
keep writing such posts which evoke "response" out of 'dormant' readers like me :D
thts a vry kind complimnt dhiman.. thnx 4 putting up this discussion which helped me fill the loopholes in my post. as u may see i already put an update for ppl 2 read our discussion. keep rtrning 2 keep me on my toes always:)
After reading this post,no one will attempt to write on this subject now.Good job done.
Nothing cud b a better complimnt thn this, Chowlaji:)
Well, this is the first post I have read about LGBT on the blogosphere and this will be the last, period. Your brilliance over the subject and mastery over the knowledge are clearly visible here. Really, I didn't know that there were these many points in which a LGBT's would be discriminated. As you mentioned, I won't abuse anyone in the near future by calling them 'gay'. An eye opener. Surely posts like these more exposure.
A well written post on a sensitive topic (I liked the God's will concept!)
Did I forget to tell that you are intelligent?
hey thnx pawan 4 all d kind wrds:)
must agree to a fact that legalising will certainly decrease their harassment by unscrupulous police officials...but acceptance is the need of the hour...we tend to jump to conclusions very soon...a person may not want another person to sleep with they might just need a shoulder...
ps:sorry i am commenting like after ages..just exploring your blog a bit...
Buddy, I love it wn sum1 takes out time 2 explore my blog.. thnx 4 leaving this comment..
You r right about the regressive mentality of the society where ppl tend 2 make a mountain out of a mole.
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